So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

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MichaelB
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So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:36 pm

So we all see Jesus every day?

http://logscabin.blogspot.com/2017/09/j ... e.html?m=1

And I've believed that Jesus is God for as long as I've believed in God, and known from Romans 11:36 (and my own reason) that all things are of, and thru, and to God all that time.

So I' guess Ive already seen Him, and I already know Him?



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:50 pm

By asking men whether you know Jesus, you witness to yourself and men that you do not know Jesus.

Seeing him is not enough.
Luke 13
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

24 ¶ Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
If you believe him as you say, go and do the works he commanded.
Matthew 7
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven [the works commanded in the Sermon].

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Luke 6
46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 14
15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world [those who will not keep his commandments] cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
It does you no good to argue against or about these things with people. Doing so does not accomplish the works commanded of you but rather accomplishes their opposite.



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:15 pm

I still have a receipt from Wal-Mart because the automated checkout cheated the store out of some change once, and I'm hoping to pay the store the change I owe when I talk to a manager who will probably think I'm crazy. I give money to beggars, I pick up hitch hikers who could easily stab me to death, and I say "gracias por comprel en Wal-Mart" to Latino looking customers.

And I voluntarily terminated my SSI.

I also try to obey the traffic laws and parking regs.

In other words, I try to avoid stealing, to do unto others, and to obey human ordinances for the Lord's sake.

I have to ask Him to forgive my shortcomings every day, but I'm trying.

Is that what you mean by doing the works He commanded?



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:20 pm

BTW: You got my age wrong.

I'm not in my sixties (I'm in my fifties), I don't collect social security, I don't receive a pension, and what I earn at Wal-Mart is my only income now.



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:39 pm

I will replace that post with this.
Luke 6
20 ¶ And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.

23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
See Matthew 5-7 for additional details.



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:49 pm

Without faith it is impossible to please God, as it is written.

And the only cure for a lack of faith is to call upon God in mighty prayer, forgiving all men of all trespasses, repairing our wrongs unto men, and doing well until God answer us.

Arguing or discussing or whatever with men will not gain us faith in God, but rather will do the opposite.



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:58 am

log wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:49 pm
Without faith it is impossible to please God, as it is written.

And the only cure for a lack of faith is to call upon God in mighty prayer, forgiving all men of all trespasses, repairing our wrongs unto men, and doing well until God answer us.

Arguing or discussing or whatever with men will not gain us faith in God, but rather will do the opposite.
The first century apostles of Christ seemed to think that discussing things, listening to all sides, and praying for guidance would help them see the faith more clearly.
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost even as he did unto us and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
And after they had held their peace, James answered saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets as it is written, After this I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David which is fallen down, and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up, that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God, but that we write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.
Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren, and they wrote letters by them after this manner: The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, forasmuch as we have heard that certain men which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment, it seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things, that ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication, from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
http://scriptures.info/scriptures/nt/acts/9.13#13



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:23 am

"The faith," you wrote (and the phrase is not present in what you cited), when "faith" is what I wrote.

You are not speaking on the same subject I am. Why are you trying to change the subject?



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Do you think "gathering together to consider the matter," praying for guidance, and trusting God to help them see "the faith" more clearly weakened their "faith"?

Why are you trying to change the subject by imputing motives?



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:43 pm

Either you are intentionally trying to change the subject away from faith, or you are unintentionally trying to change the subject away from faith.

If you are intentionally trying to change the subject away from faith, then why are you trying to change the subject?

If you do not know you are speaking on a different subject - "the faith," a phrase which does not occur in your citation, but is imputed by you where it does not occur - then you now know you are changing the subject. Of course, I noticed you spoke of "the faith" where I spoke of "faith," therefore I know you know you were not unintentionally changing the subject, but are doing so intentionally.

So, why are you changing the subject away from faith?



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:25 pm

You said
Arguing or discussing or whatever with men will not gain us faith in God, but rather will do the opposite.
Ignoring the fact that the apostles gathered to discuss an article of faith in the fifteenth chapter of the book of Acts, prayed for God's guidance, received God's guidance, and rendered a decision.

Do you think discussing the matter among themselves, and with other men ( Paul, Barnabas, and their opponents), weakened their faith?

( And why are you trying to change the subject? )



log
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by log » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:34 pm

You are, once again, intentionally not speaking on the same subject, which was "gaining faith," implicitly gaining faith in God, as opposed to "the faith," which you keep trying to change the subject to. The men you mention had faith in God already and were not seeking to gain it, nor were they speaking amongst themselves to figure out how to gain faith in God, nor were they turning to arguments or contentions or discussions with men as a substitute for faith in God which they did not possess. The passage you cite has no relevance to gaining faith.

So I gather we're done talking.
Last edited by log on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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Matthew
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by Matthew » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:09 am

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:37 pm
I have faith too.
Faith is more than believing, what is faith to you?



MichaelB
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Re: So I've already seen Christ, and I already know Him?

Post by MichaelB » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:35 pm

I think faith and believing are the same thing, and I think real belief will translate into actions.

For example: If you have a plane ticket, and you really believe that that plane is gonna crash ( and everyone on board will die in flames ), you won't get on that plane, will you?

I think that's what Paul meant when he said we're saved by Grace thru Faith, and said that it was not of ourselves, but a gift of God--and then went on to say that we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and said that we're His workmanship, created in Christ's Jesus unto good works.

And said that it's God who works in us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

And I believe James was saying the same thing when he talked about faith producing works.

What do you see as the difference between faith and believing?



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