Do any of you really KNOW?

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Do you know whether the GS being offered by the lot commitee is of God?

Yes, I KNOW it is because I've asked God, and I've received personal revelation that I know is of God.
0
No votes
Yes, I KNOW it's not of God because I've asked, and I've received personal revelation that I know is of God.
2
100%
No. I've received some revelation, but I don't know if it's of God.
0
No votes
No. I've asked but received no personal revelation.
0
No votes
No. I haven't asked and don't know.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 2

MichaelB
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Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:11 pm

I recuse myself from participating in this poll, but I invite those of you who accepted the covenant offered in Boise to bear your testimony here.

Thank you



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Matthew
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:06 pm

Christ, taught what His gospel is, what His church is, and also His doctrine and HE further said if any come and should establish for His doctrine and teaches it as truth, whether it be more or less than this, that it cometh of evil. (D&C 10:66-67 and 3 Nephi 11:31-41)

Elsewhere He said that man should not be commanded in all things, that if he was that he was a slothful servant and would forfeit light and minds would become darkened, (D&C 58:26) so we should not go beyond the mark of that which the Lord established, least those who do inadvertently end up like the Jews, who were a hard and stiffnecked people looking beyond the mark and they were given things they could not understand because they desired it and He did it so they would fall. (Jacob 4:14)

Elsewhere He taught that we should not run faster than we are able. (Mosiah 4:27) Shall we put upon our selves harder things to bear than what He the Lord has required of us and should we establish for doctrine things that are either more or less than what He taught?

If people want to make things harder for themselves, then so be it, and He will do it to them because they desired it. Personally, I would want it to be no more and no less than Christ's words. But seeing as many are filled with pride, who continue to look beyond the mark, and are covenant breakers, soothsayers, teaching to the idols in their hearts - it will be difficult to get the majority to humble themselves to accept the words of the Master, their Lord, their Prophet, Priest, and King. Some, believe they know more than the Lord, that they are learned and that their wisdom is greater - by their actions they reveal their hearts, also known as fruits, i.e. do they keep the commandments, you may know whether or not they are guided by His spirit or some other spirit whether or not they keep the commandments, do they bear false witness and take on the role of Satan and become an accuser?

Not everyone falls into this category, there are some who are humble followers of Christ among them, they are few - but they are yoked together by covenant and all shall be judged by the weakest among them, which are many. It would serve them well to learn to love one another and to be kind and disagreeable without hostility.



MichaelB
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm

So if I understand you correctly, your position on the GS is based on your understanding of the scriptures you cited here.

And perhaps on other scriptures you could have cited.

But you've received no personal revelation.

And you don't believe anyone who says they have received personal revelation that the GS is of God.

Is that correct?



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:40 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm
So if I understand you correctly, your position on the GS is based on your understanding of the scriptures you cited here.
I believe the scriptures cited speak for themselves.
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm
And perhaps on other scriptures you could have cited.
Yes, there are more that could be cited - but enough is given to cause that if one sincerely seeks they too can find out the answer for themselves.
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm
But you've received no personal revelation.
This is not correct, the Lord revealed to me His mind on the matter, and I used the scriptures above to teach, or I paraphrase them in my teaching on my blog, sometimes without always directly referring to them and citing them, those who are familiar with them will know whence the words come.
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm
And you don't believe anyone who says they have received personal revelation that the GS is of God.
If only truth were that simple, what might be right for one, might be completely wrong for another... And they both can be on the correct path but very possible they appear to be in direct opposition to one another - but as long as they are following the spirit of the Lord, which would not teach, nor reveal the things of God that have already been established as truths to be contrary to His word. In other words, His revelations to His children will not contradict that which He has already taught. But as long as those who are pretending, and they do not do what they say with their lips as the A & C declared was the case with them, they are acting with hypocrisy, they need to repent. But they're not, they are doubling down!
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm
Is that correct?
No, but thanks for asking for clarification that I might be able to explain myself better.



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:56 pm

...the Lord revealed to me His mind on the matter, and I used the scriptures above to teach, or I paraphrase them in my teaching on my blog, sometimes without always directly referring to them and citing them, those who are familiar with them will know whence the words come.
How did the Lord reveal His mind on the matter?

Elsewhere, you said
I believe if we will wait Him out and weary Him with our asking, then also keep His commandments that He will indeed answer and it may be in a way that we do not immediately recognize ya know?! It may take a while for the answer to grow and develop and then looking back we see it clearly.
How did He reveal His mind on this matter?

Was this answer something you recognized immediately, or was it something you only recognized looking back, after it had time to grow and develop?



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:20 am

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:56 pm
...the Lord revealed to me His mind on the matter, and I used the scriptures above to teach, or I paraphrase them in my teaching on my blog, sometimes without always directly referring to them and citing them, those who are familiar with them will know whence the words come.
How did the Lord reveal His mind on the matter?

There comes a point in ones journey that they become one with God, in mind, body and spirit. That connection to heaven, ebb and flows continuously. It is something that has to be maintained, by your diligence to hear Him through your obedience. Sometimes, it can be too much to bear, whereas before when I was first learning these things, I would shrink away and ask God to stop because it was too much - and in the course of that I offended Him and He withdrew. I have learned through trial and error, experimenting upon His word to instead ask for Him to strengthen me to bear all things.
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:56 pm
Elsewhere, you said
I believe if we will wait Him out and weary Him with our asking, then also keep His commandments that He will indeed answer and it may be in a way that we do not immediately recognize ya know?! It may take a while for the answer to grow and develop and then looking back we see it clearly.
I taught this as this is where most people are, they must weary God with their pleadings before they can receive an answer. He says that we ought to lift our heads up, and petition Him about all things (Alma 34) and he warns us in verse 28 - 29 that if we do not do certain things in connection with our prayers, that they are in vain. And there are some things He reveals that I must search out, ponder, and pray and then ask if it be right. Such as writing the section on my blog about understanding the endowment - I kept at it, and kept seeking until He said it was enough and satisfactory for His purposes. This is nearly the process each time I write a blog, I ponder His words, I seek for understanding and His wisdom. Then there are other times, He makes known His will immediately and there is no denying it; and it enters the heart with such force that truth and light flow.
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:56 pm
How did He reveal His mind on this matter?

Was this answer something you recognized immediately, or was it something you only recognized looking back, after it had time to grow and develop?
The answer was immediate, He showed me their hearts, and said if only they would hearken to His words, to do, and not to just say with their lips that He would be their God and they His people... but because they quarrel, contend, bear false witness and accuse one another that their needs be great suffering, to humble the proud, and to purify those who are the pure in heart that they may come to Him. That if they did not begin to keep His commandments, and humble themselves and become pure in heart, seeking not to contend with one another - and He did show me that they could do this by parting of their substances to the poor, and keeping all of His commandments; but because they will not and because they say inside themselves that it is a hard thing to do, to live the words of Christ, if they do not strive for these things then they will be overcome, and their minds will become darkened and instead of blessings, they receive cursing for disobeying God and putting their trust in the arms of flesh - even in trusting themselves, their own fleshy arms and relying on their wisdom and strength and not the Lords. Hence why it was called both a blessing and a curse, or a covenant with a curse. Breaking Gods commandments without a covenant is one thing, and with a covenant is altogether a different thing. He says it would have been better if you had never known Him.

As an aside, I had asked the Lord to be done with them recently seeing as they have rejected Him, and petitioned Him that I may depart and the next day I was cast out. I was accused falsely from one of their brethren, who sought to be contentious, who exercised unrighteous dominion and commanded that I should submit to his and others will or I shall not have place among them to teach. The Lord revealed all of them to me, and their names, and showed me some of their faces and countenances, and He did show me their hearts and reveal them to me. He also revealed that there are only three ways a servant can depart from an assignment from the Lord that is acceptable to Him who He sent to teach the people and cry repentance... the first, they kill you, the second, they cast you out, and the third, they repent and they obtain a knowledge of God for themselves. Even when cast out He sometimes commands that you go back, and in so doing they then repent or they kill you, or seek your life and then you are given to flee. But having been warned and taught correctly their sins are upon their own heads.

God said cursed are they who put their trust in men, or make flesh His arm.. we are to make the Lords arm our strength, and to trust in no men or man, or women. Only the Lord. That is what is meant by having complete fidelity to the Lord - it requires this kind of trust and faith to lay hold upon eternal life to part the veil, coming to a realization that you cannot trust in other men, but also in your own self and that you must recognize you are powerless to do anything accept that which He may grant you and that only He can save you - temporally and spiritually, then we ought to repent immediately and forsake our sins. Those who lay up treasures unto them selves against a rainy day deny God by their actions and have no faith that He will not deliver them in the hour of their need. ALL things must be done according to His will, nothing short of it, and if we stumble and we try with a sincere heart, and contrite spirit then our sacrifices can be acceptable to Him and then He will bless us and sanctify our work. But if you are not keeping the commandments, and you are being lead by the spirit then one should ask of them self by what spirit do I hearken that leads me to not keep His commandments and to not treasure up His words in my heart continuously. For the Lord will guide you to keep all His commandments. He will not lead you to accuse others, to speak evil of them, nor to bear false witness that is the spirit of the devil. And by their fruits ye shall know them; do they do that which they say - keep His commandments? If not, they are not producing fruits... but are a poison devouring up, that which is good and leading many to stumble.



MichaelB
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:56 pm

As an aside, I had asked the Lord to be done with them recently seeing as they have rejected Him, and petitioned Him that I may depart and the next day I was cast out. I was accused falsely from one of their brethren, who sought to be contentious, who exercised unrighteous dominion and commanded that I should submit to his and others will or I shall not have place among them to teach.
And is the Lord done with them?

(As a group I mean.)



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:16 pm

Nope, never. He always has His arm extended all the day long. And how oft He would gather us if we would but keep His commandments and obey His voice. So He waits... and soon as you are ready to repent He is there to show you the way, but if you’re going to reject Him and or act with hypocrisy then you are left to your own devices.

As for me, I am done...



MichaelB
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:45 pm

Matthew wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:16 pm
Nope, never. He always has His arm extended all the day long.
Then why did you ask Him to be done with them?

Did they treat you as badly as some of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians treated saint Stephen (whose feast day is coming up on December 26)?
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
Did they break covenants and reject God?
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
And are you of the same mind and heart as saint Stephen?
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
http://scriptures.info/scriptures/nt/acts/4



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Matthew
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:14 am

Why did I ask Him to be done? Because it’s time for other voices to come and bear witness of the Lord and His commandments to these people; if the Lord had not agreed then He would have told me no and given further instruction and I would have obeyed. But seeing as He put it in my heart to ask Him in the first place, I knew that in asking I would receive. The time was right and it was now. He knowing my heart knows that my intent was to move on to other things that others may come and rise up and testify of Him to these.

Am I done preaching, teaching among a people? No. I have been teaching others who are also His sheep of another fold for some time now, that He has sent me to and they hear the words of Christ and are coming unto Him.

It’s funny you ask me about Stephen, in short yes, but I posted something similar on FB.
To my many accuser, who bear false witness against me, come out of your dark places, come out from the darkness into the light! For the Lord has shown you too me, and I know your doings.

Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day, THEY WILL DENY ME; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.(2 Nephi 28:32)

Nephi's words apply here to you and I would say the same thing this day:

I also have charity for the Gentiles. But behold, for none of these can I hope except they shall be reconciled unto Christ, and enter into the narrow gate, and walk in the strait path which leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation.(2 Nephi 33:9)

I know that the Lord God will consecrate my prayers for the gain of my people. And the words which I have written in weakness will be made strong unto them; for it persuadeth them to do good; it maketh known unto them of their fathers; and it speaketh of Jesus, and persuadeth them to believe in him, and to endure to the end, which is life eternal. And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written save he shall be of the spirit of the devil. (2 Nephi 33:4-5)
Don’t you think it’s time for you yourself to be baptized and make a covenant with the Lord to follow Him, to keep His commandments always?

Do you not feel the yearning of your own spirit for light and truth?

Do you not know that He has invited you many times to come unto Him but because of fear you have hearken to these other voices of fear and doubt and that by your actions you deny the word you have received?

You asked me once if I would baptize you, and I said yes. What then is keeping you besides hearkening to the voices of despair, fear, doubt, and so on?



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am

I don't believe that you're an authorized messenger who has the authority to baptize anyone.

I've received no witness of that.

I have no testimony of that.

And I don't want to make the same mistake someone else said he made when he entered a covenant without knowing it was of God.

And I thought you said that you had asked the Lord to be done with the remnant movement people.

Not that you asked Him to give you leave of the remnant movement people.

Perhaps I misunderstood you.

If I did I'm sorry.

BTW: I'm homeless now.

I'm sleeping in the car, and at a friend's house, and in and out the ER a lot (possibly because my friend has multiple cats, the house is dusty, and I have allergies.)

My mailing address is 401 North street, Elkton Md., and that's the Mary Randall House (a place homeless people can use as a legal street address with the DMV, receive mail, shower, and have breakfast 5 days a week, but where no one actually lives.)

I'm poor and needy, and if you want to impart any of your substance to me I wouldn't refuse it.



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by Matthew » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:53 am

MichaelB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am
I don't believe that you're an authorized messenger who has the authority to baptize anyone.

I've received no witness of that.

I have no testimony of that.
Those are good enough reasons, all by themselves!
MichaelB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am
And I don't want to make the same mistake someone else said he made when he entered a covenant without knowing it was of God.
This sounds like an excuse to NOT exercise faith upon the word to repent, come unto Christ and be baptized.
MichaelB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am
And I thought you said that you had asked the Lord to be done with the remnant movement people.

Not that you asked Him to give you leave of the remnant movement people.
There are many things I asked and said to Him in my pleadings, I am not naive enough to not know, that for any reason at any time that He may command me to lift up my voice again to them, and to declare His words that He is given me. As a whole, to this group - I am done, ME. As for some of them, individuals who are among them, well that all depends on them. I am teaching others who want the words of Christ, wherever I am, and wherever the Lord calls me to teach, I teach. Some are Gentiles, not Mormons and others, are of Islam, and others who are just seeking truth and who are from many different backgrounds. I teach where I am and where He sends me to teach.
MichaelB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am

Perhaps I misunderstood you.

If I did I'm sorry.
No biggy, you're just trying to understand where I am at and what my heart is.
MichaelB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:59 am
BTW: I'm homeless now.

I'm sleeping in the car, and at a friend's house, and in and out the ER a lot (possibly because my friend has multiple cats, the house is dusty, and I have allergies.)

My mailing address is 401 North street, Elkton Md., and that's the Mary Randall House (a place homeless people can use as a legal street address with the DMV, receive mail, shower, and have breakfast 5 days a week, but where no one actually lives.)

I'm poor and needy, and if you want to impart any of your substance to me I wouldn't refuse it.
That sounds hard Michael. I have experienced homelessness growing up, and once as an adult - though they were brief, and not on the streets but out of car/living with others - I can understand what it is you're going through. Some times these things happen to us, to teach us to submit to the Lord, to rely on His strength and not others or our own. And some times it just happens.

I do not have money to give, but I can send a heavy winter coat? It's an XL. How are you on clothing in general?



MichaelB
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:27 pm

Thank you Matthew.

I could actually use a good, heavy winter coat, and I think extra large would fit

As far as preaching to Moslems, you could really be risking your life, and following in some very good foot steps (if you're preaching the same gospel they did.)

What I'm trying to say is that you're very likeky to be killed (which is fine, if you die a martyr, preaching the same gospel the blessed matyrs preached.)

If that's how you do die, I envy you.

But it would be a shame if you died preaching a false gospel to people you didn't really understand.

I've worked with them, I've talked to them, at least one of them tried to convert me, and I think I understand them pretty well--and they are very likely to (literally) kill you.

Not argue, not make you uncomfortable, not cast you out--but literally kill you.

BTW: I need to correct something I said.

I should have said that I don't believe you're an authorized messenger with any special authority to baptize anyone.

I actually believe anyone whose been baptized by water in the name of the Holy Trinity can baptize anyone who wants to be baptized, at any time.

And I believe I was baptized a long time ago.

I can't find it now, but there's a very old letter from the patristic era (from one church father to another) about the meaning of the blood and water that we're told flowed from Christ's side when He was on the cross (in John's gospel), and what it means to be born again.

The basic idea was that the new birth is the baptism in spirit, whenever anyone is baptized in spirit they're born of the water and the blood that flowed from Christ's side and redeemed the world, and God can baptize in spirit and grant this new birth at any time He chooses.

At the same time a repentant sinner is visibly baptized in water and publicly joins the church, years later when he understands and accepts a covenant that was made for him and really repents (as the Apostles, who were hard hearted and slow to believe all during Christ's ministry, didn't really understand much of what He said, and were only converted on the day of Pentecost--years after they were inititially baptized by John), or even before water baptism (as in the case of Cornelius--who received the Holy Ghost before he publicly joined the church by being baptized in water.)

I've been baptized at least three times, and it was this treatise from the early centuries of the church that convinced me the first time was the only one that really counted.

I still believe that.



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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:30 pm

P.S. If it's not the only heavy winter coat you have, and if no one else you know needs it, could you please send it to me?



MichaelB
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Re: Do any of you really KNOW?

Post by MichaelB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:16 pm

I got the coat today, it's warm, it looks brand new, and it fits perfectly.

Thank you Matthew.

And thanks for the sleeping bag Jared.

I actually have a motel room the Cecil county health department is paying for right now, but I'll probably have use for the sleeping bag soon



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