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An open discussion forum for those who have assented to the covenant offered through Denver Snuffer to write and / or adopt by mutual agreement a statement of principles as a guide and standard.
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Post by DougLarson » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:09 pm


It is possible that we may never come to understanding with each other because you are fine with having a Zion of one person: yourself, if that's what it comes to. You also rank your willingness to have conflict, stating that if there is conflict with the Lord, then it overrules His doctrine of not contending. From what you state, you seek your own standing with the Lord over the body's. At least that is how I perceive it, based on what you have said. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are also very logical in your approach, which is great. But I honestly have a hard time knowing where your heart is. It is very difficult to measure "fruits" through internet discussions. But it's all I have. If your heart is with "charity," (which is the thing which "never faileth") there are elements of that which I see in conflict. Specifically, in regards to charity not seeking her own.

My hope is that we (not just you and I) can try to understand how "charity" actually works, as in rubber meets the road. Because our knowledge will vanish away, our prophecies will fail, but we have a shoo-in with charity. This exercise will be moot if we cannot establish charity as our foundation.

Even the "Rock of Jesus Christ" will fail if the words contained within it do not support charity as the desired end. I'm happy to go down that road with anyone. However, if we are seeking our own and not seeking the body, then I'm afraid this will fail, and there is no reason to exert energy.


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Re: Charity

Post by log » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:02 am


If you want to know for what purpose The Rock of Jesus Christ was written, it was because the body would not receive this.
The Simplified Gospel

The ways humanity tries to bring about justice, peace, and unity do not and cannot work. History and current events are proof that competing against, controlling, or manipulating others always results in disunity, conflict, injustice, and inequality. Yet competition, force, and manipulation are how humanity has chosen to govern itself. Jesus offers us the sole alternative to humanity’s self-destructive ways: love.

The law of God is this: every last thing you wish others would do to you, do those exact same things to them. This law defines the behavior of perfect love, which is called “charity.” God’s law is the true moral and ethical standard of all humankind, being written into every conscience, and it is the definition of “good.” Behavior that falls short of this law is not good and produces both guilt and conflict with others.

The purpose of the law of God is to end conflict between people. Those who willingly keep His law may joyfully and peacefully live together as equals, both here and now, and forever in the eternal world. The commandments that Jesus gave us in the Sermon on the Mount are how we are to obey the law of God through our works and end our conflicts with others.

Love, the feeling which makes us want to do what the law of God commands, is given to us by God. Charity is Jesus’s nature, meaning He feels perfect love towards everyone. Charity is the nature of all those who inherit God’s kingdom with Jesus. Jesus’s commandments in the Sermon on the Mount are the actions which those who have charity do by nature.

“Sin” is intent or action which falls short of the law of God, such as giving in to lust and doing to others what we do not wish others would do to us. “Repent” means to change one’s mind, to reconsider, or to relent, all of which implies a willing change in one’s behavior.

Any who will believe Jesus’s words in the Sermon on the Mount as literally as small children believe their parents’ words, and repent of all their sins, and be baptized by one of His sent servants, shall be visited by God with fire and with the Holy Ghost and shall receive a remission of their sins.

The visitation of the Holy Ghost changes our feelings so that we understand Jesus’s love and want to only do good. Then we are to do what Jesus commands until the end of our lives. We trust in Jesus to guide and comfort us in our trials and afflictions as we learn who and what He is by the things we suffer in obedience to His teachings. Just as one does not learn a new skill without practice, nobody can understand nor master the discipline of perfect love without doing its works. Doing the works Jesus commanded until we fully understand Him and freely agree to become what He is and to receive His nature from Him permanently as a gift by His grace so that we love everyone perfectly just like He does is what it means to be a disciple of Jesus.

If you keep the commandments of Jesus Christ, you are His church (Matthew 7:24-25, 16:18; Luke 6:47-48), you are His disciple (John 8:31-32), you are His friend (John 15:14), and you are His family (Luke 8:19-21).
It would seem with this that all your objections are answered.


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